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tv   Consider This  Al Jazeera  December 10, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm EST

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educate poor children. >> schools where kids need grade teaching the most. >> can unprepared teachers make a difference? >> why are we sending them teachers with 5 weeks of training? >> the cia strikes back, three former directors forcefully defend themselves against the cia's use of pressure. and what was said about the white house behind closed doors and a big discovery in outer space. i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this," those stories and others straight ahead. >> this particular release
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serves no purpose. >> seems to me it's deeply flawed. >> we violated who we were. >> we should hold ourselves accountable. >> death of a palestinian minister. >> after clashes with the israeli troops in the west bank. >> between the palestinians and the israelis. >> our times person of the year. >> this story had been uncovered at critical periods of time. >> nasa's rover the curiosity -- >> link on mars. >> potentially long enough to sustain life. >> malala yousafzai. gets the nobel prize for >> senate intelligence committee's report on the cia's
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brutal attacks. called the report poorly done. while the cia had done things in the interrogation program that should not have happened they argued the program led to the capture of senior al qaeda operatives, disrupted terrorist plots and prevented mass terrorist attacks, and played an important role in the hunt for osama bin laden. all points specifically rejected in the committee report but supported by current cia director john brennan. at the white house press secretary josh earnest suggested whether the program produced actionable intelligence was besides the point. >> even if this information did yield important national security information, the damage that it did to our moral
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authority in the mind of this president means that those interrogation techniques should not have been implemented in the first place. >> for more on the senate intelligence committee report i'm joined by washington, d.c. by former cia director ambassador r. james wolsey, currently the chairman of the defense for american democracy. ambassador it's a pleasure to have you as always. your colleagues the three former cia directors say that a balanced study was important but that this committee report was anything but, it was a partisan attack. do you agree with them? >> basically yes. i think what's really indicative here is they dealt with no one, such as these three directors of central intelligence, who had been responsible for making the decisions about the program and correcting some of the early mistakes that were made. they didn't talk to a soul.
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they took thousands of pages of text and edited it in whatever way they wanted to. and you can make it say most anything with those kinds of numbers. and then they call that the report. i think this is just about as distorted a job as i've seen come out of capitol hill in some 35 or 40 years i've been looking at congressional reports. >> and you served under a democrat bill clinton, you've been complimentary in the past of democrat dianne feinstein and saxby chambliss. in the days after 9/11 would you have authorized these enhanced interrogation methods? >> i would have gone to the justice department with a program and had a decision made
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to make a recommendation one way or the other, to the president. i don't know that the methods i would have selected would have been exactly the same. but one needed to deal with the situation, in which we had lost thousands of americans to a major terrorist attack that we knew that others were being planned, a major one for the west coast, of about the same size. we knew that the terrorists were talking with pakistani officials who had access to nuclear weapons. the country was extremely frightened and understandably so. and i am not a supporter of torture as it is defined in american law. but i've got to say that some of these enhanced interrogation techniques strike me as perfectly reasonable. some may not be, but that was -- >> but putting a aside the
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circumstances that the report mentions which i think anyone would agree are torture, things as waterboarding and sleep deprivation -- >> if waterboard is is torture it's a very curious kind of torture, if you compare it to something like say pulling one's finger nails out. waterboarding is a way of training for navy seals. >> but wouldn't you -- >> they also the other thing that happens with respect to waterboarding is a number of journalists and authors in the united states after this first came to light, volunteered to be waterboarded so they could write about it. very few volunteer to have their finger nails pulled out. >> if you're being water boarded as part of training when
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compared to being at a black site as a prisoner and being waterboarded? >> well, if you are a prisoner who has information about a subsequent attack on the united states that might again involve the deaths of thousands of americans, i would think that the differences are ones that one could deal with. >> a lot of the -- you know very passionate backlash from the intelligence community has pen to say that the report is wrong and that the enhanced interrogation techniques do work. i'm assuming from what you said that you agree with that, that they are effective? >> i don't have a separate measure of the degree of effectiveness. but one thing that strikes me as important is that the critique that is in the republican report, i'm sorry that is in the democratic report, that was filed by the majority of the committee, is that it is not a
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situation where the committee got together and coherently presented this and that to one another and discussed the way congressional committees usually do. this is not a committee report. it's a democratic members of the committee report. and it trumpets its partisanship. i've never seen anything quite like this. i was general counsel of the senate armed services committee in the early 70s so i've been involved and looking at these issues for 40 years. and i've never seen a congressional report as biased as this one. >> on the issue of effectiveness though, critics say the cia would argue that enhanced interrogation techniques are effective, because it's the only way to justify the extreme methods. do they have a point? >> the point is not to justify extreme methods. the point is to get information.
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sometimes you can get it through mind games and trickery and interrogation. there are different approaches. i don't think we can acquiesce to recommendations for torture such as my examples of pulling people's finger nails out. but if you would call waterboarding torture some people do and some do not, most u.s. law would not call it torture. if you want to call waterboarding torture you have to admit it is a very, very different kind than what most people think of as torture involving physical damage and long term physical damage and the rest. >> moving on the reporter said that they felt another attack
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might be imminent. general hayden had more to say about that. listen to that. >> we thought we were doing the nation's will and in fact having lived through period and even looking back on it now, i think this indeed is about the nation's will. and in all these activities, the president authorizes them, the congress was briefed without objection and we carried them out. >> but the program then ran until december of 2007. so even if we grant that the context was incredibly different and i certainly remember i was one of the people who had to be tested for anthrax exposure, you know, should the program have been stopped once the panic was over, once we'd learned a lot about al qaeda and had some progress against them? >> i think you have to take these issues one at a time. for example, one of the so-called interrogation enhanced methods that was used is that an
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individual was pushed so he smashed into a door. the door was designed so it would break, so he would not be hurt. but he was thrown against a door. a door that breaks. is designed to break. how is that something that under no circumstances on moral grounds could be considered? it does not strike me as anything other than a trick. and i think that so many people have latched on to the whole idea of torture and they use the word without having it have any content, thinking that that wins the argument for them just by referring to it as torture. whereas it's complicated. some of these things, i do not think over the long run the country should be engaged in water boarding. i think it was understandable at the time and in the
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circumstances. i frankly have been inclined for sometime to think it was all right to continue it. i'm heavily influenced in my views by john mccain and who has been a friend for years and underwent torture and is my authority of torture in a sense. this is a difficult call for water boarding but to portray it as if it were something like pulling people's finger nails out is just extraordinarily deceptive. >> final question for you, one of the big parts of this report was accusing the cia of misleading congress and of civilians. the cia by nature is clan deas december -- has clan destine and has clandestine operations. >> i take to their word the three cia drorkt directors who d
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on to the wallets journal and some of their colleagues that they had fully informed the congress. and i think it would be ridiculous of them not to inform the congress of some major step like this. i could not conceive of their not having done so. but only the people who spoke and the people who were spoken to know. again, it is really extraordinary that the people who put this democratic majority report together for congres thes did not talk to a single person inside the government in the cia or anywhere else who was involved in pulling this program together. they decided to edit things the way they wanted so it would say the way they wanted it to say and that's extraordinarily deceptive fro where i'm concern.
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>> and the three directors said they hadfully informed the congress. i'm joined by pj crowley. p.j. it's good to see you. would it have been better for the rest of the world had this report been kept private? >> i think it is an important report and i think it's a worthy objective, to learn lessons, understand what we've done right or wrong. i'm concerned that we have a debate in the middle of a war that's still going on still intensifying. my own view would be it is the right thing at perhaps the wrong time. we'll find out. obviously we're seeing in the domestic context a lot of
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political recrimination, not exactly the environment that leads to a reasonable debate and there is risk that we're reliving this experience again, and it raises the risk that perhaps someone will act upon this latest information, well hopefully that won't happen. >> in the context of what you're saying that we're fighting this war, critics of the report say that foreign intelligence services are less likely to work with the united states because the report demonstrates again that washington can't keep secrets. is that an issue? >> well, it is an issue. clearly there have been some uncomfortable moments i'm sure over the past few days. you've had for example governments in -- former government in poland acknowledging that yes it did approve a secret site there, wasn't aware of what was going on. you've had questions from afghanistan, lithuania, other countries saying please tell us exactly what you did within our
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borders. that said, we've had this kind of experience before. you know personally during wikileaks. and thankfully at the end of the day, vital interests guide our relations to other countries in the world. and you could look at the international coalition that has been formed to combat the islamic state, notwithstanding those moments, the cooperation with the united states and other states have gone up not down. >> one consequence of the report's release is it's giving fuel to the fires that like to the lit by some countries not known by their human rights records and they're having a field day with the report. let's look at one of them, china's state run agency, including china, newspaper in iran put this on its front page, torture surveillance shooting,
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the three pillars of american human rights. releasing the report was i think partially intended to improve america's standing in the world. and while we may not care what the government, these governments think what sort of an impact is it having on their people? >> well look. today brazil released a report about activities within the government from 30 years ago. i mean this is a necessary function particularly with the democracy, to explain what government is doing on behalf of its citizens. you know the things we've done right, the things we've done wrong and to find a way to move on. there is a groundhog day kind of feel to this. i don't know that we've changed any minds around the world. if you were angry about the united states yesterday, you've got new fodder. if you were disappointed in the united states you are probably still bewildered and if you are an antagonist of the united
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states yeah. you're going to have your moment including north korea saying, why is the security council investigating us, why not them? >> let's hear more about josh earnest response to the report. >> the president is concerned about the use of those enhanced interrogation techniques undermine america's authority around the globe. one substantial way we can rebuild that moral authority is to be honest, as transparent as poobl about ipossible about it e that those things don't happen again. >> do you think america's outright war against al qaeda overran our moral authority and will this help us rebuild the moral authority? >> i don't see that cia is a rogue authority, it was doing
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what it thos was authorization at the highest level of government as well as legal authority. i happen to think that some of the things that we did were mistakes and whatever the gains at a tactical level we have paid strategic costs here. i do hope that we learn these lessons and whether it's setting up a parallel legal universe at guantanamo bay, the black sites and interrogation techniques that we learn these lessons and we don't go the same road again in the future. so i think it's very, very important to go through this dynamic, and you know we'll hopefully come to some reasoned judgment over time. and the ideal would be, you know, to build this kind of perspective into what we do in the future. >> final question for you: the u.n. special reporteur on human rights and counterterrorism says, as a matter of
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international law, there should be no impunity or statute of limitations or the torture. is there any possibility that former members of the government or the -- anybody who worked for the cia, should face any kind of -- 80 kind of prosecution? >> my personal view is, we should not go down that road . there are two ways to look at this antonio, one is through a prosecutorial role. and sometimes they choose that option. i would prefer it to be closer to truth and reconciliation. we need to understand what government has done on our behalf. figure out what went right, what was wrong, what might have worked but for what we have paid very significant costs learn from this. i think these issues have been thoroughly investigated by the
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justice department now by the senate. i'm sure we'll go over this ground again in the future and we should. but so i think this is part of a process but i don't think in this particular case prosecutions are the answer. >> p.j. crowelly good to have your perspectives. thanks. now for some other stories from around the world. we begin in our nation's capital where congressional leaders have reached a deal on a $1.1 trillion spending package that would keep the government running until september. even though a deal was made, no one seems to be happy, it will continue to fund obamacare even though it offers no new money. meanwhile, house minority leaders nancy pelosi say some in her party are deeply troubled, house speaker bjor boehner is
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defending the bill. the house will vote on the bill on thursday and the senate will vote on it at some point over the weekend. next we head to detroit where michigan governor rick schneider says the bankruptcy is ending. begin the process of paying off its creditors. governor snyder thanked emergency manager kevin orr. detroit filed for bankruptcy in july of 2013. we end in oslo, norway where pakistani educational activist malala yousafzai received the nobel peace prize. criticizing world leaders for not doing enough to end
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conflict. >> why is it that countries which we call strong are so powerful in creating wars but are so weak in bringing peace? >> the 17-year-old who survived an assassination attempt by the taliban in 2012 pledged to use the prize money to build more schools in pakistan. and that's some of what's happening around the world. coming up, a palestinian minister dies after confrontation with an israel. times man of the year, who just missed out on the honor. our social media producer, hermela aregawi is helping out the stream. what's trending hermella? >> antonio, top law schools cause a bit of a stir after letting students delay exams to
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protest the decisions for erik garner and michael brown. join the conversation @ajconsiderthis and at our facebook page. to the brink of economic ruin >> this is because of a corrupt deal to an assigned to basically support two dodgy businessmen an israeli one, and an egyptian one... >> al jazeera exposes those who made a fortune betraying an entire nation >> you don't feel you owe an explanation to the egyptian people? >> no...no.. >> al jazeera investigates egypt's lost power on al jazeera america
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>> the palestinian authority has stopped all security coordination with israel after the death of one of its leaders. senior palestinian minister ziad abu ain. palestinian medics say abu ein died of tear gas exposure. just after abu ain's death, protests broke out.
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israeli defense minister moshe laon was caught on tape by saying israel is standing in the way of new settlements. former israeli diplomat to the united nations and currently a scholar in residence at american university. dan always good to have you on the show. this violence around abu ait's death, immediate consequences, the palestinian authority has stopped all security coordination with israel, hamas and islamic jihad. >> antonio glad to be here. i hope we're not led to an escalation, i hope the escalation can be contained. this death is very regretful and there is an investigation
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underway and this investigation should bring is are results andt to whether there was any wrongdoing in the death of this palestinian minister. understandably tensions are high tonight around the palestinian territories. but i hope that at the end of the day, the palestinian authority contains the situation, does not let this escalate. i hope that this temporary suspension is indeed of the cooperation is indeed temporary and that soon israeli and palestinian security officials and agencies will return to fool cooperation. >> what about the international consequences? because the palestinian authority has been reluctant really in not pressing to become a member of international organizations, now the palestinian authority is saying that they are going to move ahead on that because of this. >> well, they're looking into
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this. and there are reports that perhaps in a few weeks in new york the resolution finall final be tabled at the security council. exactly for this reason, on sunday, this coming sunday, secretary kerry is traveling to rome where he will meet prime minister netanyahu. they will be discussing this palestinian resolution. he will be meeting with palestinian counterparts mr. kerry and hoping for a way not to bring this to the u.n. or at least have some agreed formula in which this is being taken care of. >> abu a-in spoke to the media about what they were protesting and he said this. >> we're not going. this is the army of the option and they are stopping palestinians for acting on their rights. we came to our palestinian land to plant olive trees. they attacked us immediately without anyone throwing a stone or attacking them. this is a terrorist israeli army
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which stops palestinians from acting on their rights. >> is there any hope of peace if israel continues to build settlements? >> antonio, this is a million dollar question. how can we get to a resolution of israeli palestinian conflicts? there have been attempt after attempt for years going on, the last under secretary kerry, to bring the parties together. unfortunately the parties were not able to agree. and so we're at a stalemate we're at a deadlock. right now in israel, early elections have been called which is pushing a decision on this, on the israeli side at least until march or the summer until a new israeli government is formed. obviously, once an israeli government is in place and there's a palestinian partner to talk to about this hopefully negotiations will resume and the
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parties can go back to talk to one another, and promote finally bring and en an end to this con. >> isn't continuing to build settlements a recipe for failure? as we know most countries including united kingdom and at times u.s. officials see the settlement as level under international law and a provocation in a region that just doesn't need any more violence. >> settlements have always been a bone of contention in israel and the international community. but statehood is to be discussed once advanced negotiations are held between the parties. once advanced negotiations are held then everything will be on the table, refugees and settlements. as long as there's no final status of negotiations the issue of settlements will not be on the table. once there are negotiations this
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can be part of negotiations. and israel is -- has indicated in the past that it will be willing to make concessions in this regard. >> right but i guess the question many have in this regard is why continue if it is something that is making the process even harder to move forward? and the protests over the settlements came amid another controversy because straily defense minister moshe daon said the obama administration won't last forever. is that the view of the israeli government is just to try to wait out the obama administration and hope that they'll find friends in washington that will allow the settlements to move forward? >> well, first i have to look at defense minister's yalon's words in the context of the upcoming elections. everything should be seen these days through the eyes through the lenses of the upcoming
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elections. yalon was speaking in a closed room but i think he was hoping it would get outside and he was addressing a constituency that is supportive of settlements. it wants to see settlements continue and obviously, he was as lekud is trying to take away votes that have spilled over to naftali bennett's jewish home party. it is not the first time the lehud party would say such a thing but going back to your original question about settlements at this point in time, obviously right now there is no settlement activity beyond -- there are no new settlements that are being built at this point in time. existing houses to existing
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settlements. >> it is a distinction without a difference from the palestinian point of view. but you know, even if this is a conservative minister, a member of lehud, isn't it something that people who want peace in israel have to worry about? the right in israel pushing hard for something that is going to age are the palestinians and is not going to help the peace process. >> obviously, the comments are unhelpful and they don't -- obviously they do not contribute to a peaceful resolution of this. but i think that they should be seen in the context that i've mentioned before. palestinian ministers on their end even the late mr. abu ain was also inciting. so i think both parties need to take a step back and if they're really interested in promoting
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peace they need to do what's necessary to do so. and obviously i agree that it's unnecessary but it should be seen in the context of the upcoming elections i believe. >> very important point that both sides need to deescalate here and let's hope no more violence ensues as a result of this. thank you, pleasure to have you. >> pleasure, good night. >> let's check in with hermella who is in washington, d.c. tonight. >> hi antonio. so a recent columbia law school decision is getting a lot of attention. finals started this week but the school is letting a group of students ar to postpone their fl exams, robert garner said, these faces have shaken the grand jury system and the law generally.
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on twitter, johness well done columbia students, this is best dog ate my homework ever. after receiving a letter from a group of minority students. the students explained the complicated nature of having to choose between exams and protesting. they say we join marches with the looming anxiety that this could put our studies and positions in the law school community in jeopardy. the group also criticized columbia on the way the fajt fay handled a forum on law enforcement. cornell and harvard are also considering granting the same request.
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>> recreational marijuana in colorado is it paying off? later new evidence that water could have existed on mars for millions of years.
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>> ferguson protestors, russian presidential vladimir putin and caregivers for ebola were all in the running for time's man of the year, who responded as ebola ravaged parts of west africa. they not only did this at great risk to them but facing national and international bureaucracies that refused to accept that a major epidemic broke out. >> if i wasn't here on the ground doing my job i would be in the u.s., lobbying newspapers
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saying, somebody has to do something. >> people who don't have drinking water or a hospital in theirs villages. even if i died during ebola at least i lived for something i believed in. >> joining us to discuss how the selection was made, "time" magazine's nations editor. ben goldberg. 11,000 confirmed cases, this is a very powerful article supporting your choice. retelling the ebola story from the beginning, and really, in just exhaustive and fascinating detail. and some of the comments that you guys make in the magazine as to why you made thee choice, you talking about how governments were not prepared to respond, and ensnarled in red tape. governments crying wolf, so much would have happened had these
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first responders not been there to help. >> one of the most striking things about our report, erin discovered msf, doctors without borders, first discovered ebola in guinea. they were rebuffed by the world health organization. had there not been these layers and layers of bureaucracy you just mentioned who knows how many more lives could have been saved and how much earlier it could have been contained. >> there were issues with loam governments so the bureaucracies were in africa and around the world that they had to deal with. i doubt anyone wo would quarrel with your choice. was it a clear cut choice for you? >> it should never be an easy decision. i don't think we're doing our job well if it is. there was absolutely vigorous debate about a number of other candidates. we include four runners up and
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rank them in order. number 2 were the ferguson protesters, and they were absolutely very deserving of where they were placed. what happened on august 9th -- please go ahead. >> some might argue that with you. i know time magazine has made unpopular choices in the past, and serious noises whether the ferguson protesters should be named person of the year because of the violence, they may have launched a new civil rights movement calling attention oa very important issue. >> that's why we selected them. i think it's impossible to view them with one complete brush. what happened august 9th, michael brown's shooting was in every way a tragedy but sadly it's a recurring one. these sorts of things have happened around the country and they continue to happen. the fact that they were unwilling to let a local shooting go and they actually translated it into a national and even international movement is why they belong on the list.
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>> as you guys are discussing this, though, are you saying this might not be a good idea because some people are upset or is that not a consideration? >> we take everything into account. this should be a conversation starter. we have plenty of those, there is kick and screaming and yelling. >> i'd like some video of that next time ben. "time" magazine kicking and screaming and yelling. the ebola caregivers on tom, then runner up, ferguson protesters, and -- >> you got it. >> so vladimir putin would not have been a very popular choice but he certainly has made a big splash on the international scene this year. he certainly wants russia to be a major force again in international politics, he
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invaded crimea, arguably invaded eastern ukraine. was he close to winning? is there a big gap among these fivefive. >> there's no algorithm, it's a subjective editorial choice. putin came in number 3. he was our person of the year in 2007. there's no doubt that he is making a very strong case for the sort of reassertion of russia's imperial ambitions. gorbachev said as much to our correspondent simon shuster in moscow. but he's facing global head winds. the ruble is losing value against the dollar. he has to abandon the arctic pipeline,.
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>> many have argued he is launching a second cold war. masoud barzani. >> america's most important ally in the middle east as it engages i.s.i.l. he is also the leader of the largest ethnic group without a state and that may soon change. he is as we call him the opportunityivity. opportunist. a person whose influence is likely going to grow in 2014. >> jack ma, don't know who he is,. >> ali booba has had the largest ipo in history. he is poised to uphen upend e-ce
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and. >> ali baba is amazon on steroids. >> it tends to have a bit of a home field advantage this comes into play. so this year it was won by narendra modi, india's president. after al-sisi won after the u.s., egyptians were the largest contingent. modi is absolutely somebody that we have our eyes on and we expect more things to come next year. >> any other important things come out of the poll? >> there was a strong vote for taylorrivity. >> she was one of the ones who were being considered and she's
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certainly had an impact in this country on the cultural scene. >> man of the year person of the year is currently online and on news stands. coming up from outer space, a major new discovery of mars. first we'll track the highs and lows of marijuana, two years after colorado made it legal for personal use. our data dive is next. >> can unprepared teachers make a difference? >> why are we sending them teachers with 5 weeks of training?
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>> today's data dive goes up in smoke. wednesday marks two years since colorado governor john
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hickenlooper signed an executive order, 55% of voters had approved legalize a month before on election day. colorado's right to buy and sell it came on january 1st of this year. colorado's pardonnen the pun has had highs and lows, 30 million a month in recreational marijuana. and that is expected to double with the ski season. target to hit the $70 million annual estimate in the legalization measure. and while it's legal to possess emergencmarijuana, it's illegale it in public.
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ing unintentional marijuana ingestion this year, that is up from zero in the five years prior to legalization. university of criminally burn center has had 31 dplitio 31 ade for marijuana related burns. alaska maryland and washington, d.c. voted to join colorado and washington state to legalize marijuana. but spending bill includes a section to block legalization in the nation's capital. that despite sincerely 70% of the district's voters. coming up a major discovery in outer space. >> hi everyone, i'm john siegenthaler in new york. coming up, torture in the cia, calls for accountability and why they may come up empty.
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jailed for a crime he didn't commit, what one of the central park 5 says about race and police. why cities around the country are banning the ride uber. all that and more coming up after "consider this." >> start with one issue education... gun control... the gap between rich and poor... job creation... climate change... tax policy... the economy... iran... healthcare... ad guests on all sides of the debate. >> this is a right we should all have... >> it's just the way it is... >> there's something
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seriously wrong... >> there's been acrimony... >> the conservative ideal... >> it's an urgent need... and a host willing to ask the tough questions >> how do you explain it to yourself? and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5 eastern only on al jazeera analists liv.
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>> nasa's curiosity rover may have just discovered the best evidence yet that mars once held the potential to support life. it shows that water may have been on mars for much longer than previously thought and that might have given life the chance to form on the red planet. separately the chemical results are in from the rosetta mission
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from the comet. derek pitts, good to see you. we've got this great new picture from mars showing us rocks that really even to a layman seem to be made of layered sediment. so the theory is this is proof that mars had a substantial long lasting water cycle with rivers and lakes and that it may have even been similar to an early version of earth? >> whether we look at rocks like this antonio, we are thinking about the process that goes on here on earth to create rock layers. and we know that that process can take thousands, tens of thousands of years to happen. so when we look at this photograph, and we see so many layers, it indicates for sure that there was liquid water standing for a long time, that would allow these layers to
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build up and that time might have been long enough for an environment conducive to the development of life to exist. so that's a really tantalizing piece of the puzzle because it indicates not just here but a number of places across the surface of mars. >> so while it's not evidence of life though, it's evidence that the conditions for life were in place. specifically as to -- you know what you were saying that now those conditions could have been in place long enough that life could have developed. >> yes. and the long enough part is very important. we know that i.t. took a very long time for life to develop an this planet and this plan it had and still has the best conditions for the development of life anyplace in the solar system. it took a long time here. so while on mars it didn't last on the surface, anyway, we have to include that factor of how long it would take.
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given the rock units we see there look like there are substantial sedimentary layers, indicate that it could have been there long enough for the organic materials to get a foothold to generate some form of life. we haven't seen anything yet but this points us tolt rice to thet direction. >> we have seen long objects ton surface that points to water movement, what is different from the past? >> what we see are evidences of water flowing accrediting the services, the patterns we see of deltas and streams and channels, large canyons, indicate the presence of a liquid substance of some kind. one of the things we're trying to look for is either a strand line or a shoreline of an
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ancient ocean. we know that at one time in mars past mars was much warmer and much wetter. but we need large amounts of water on the surface and what we've seen up to this point or very few instances is the evidence of standing water for a long time. so the idea of finding something that resembles the lake or ocean, that mars overall in the past was much warmer much wetter you could even say much more earth like. >> so we have the evidence that life was possible. what will it take for us to know for sure? >> well, there are two ways we can do it. we could possibly bring rocks from mars back to earth so they could be investigated up close in person and microscopically so we could look for microscopic evidence of development of life in the past. my favorite one on this antonio, we put boots on the ground.
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>> get somebody there. >> send a group of astronauts, a couple of geologists, paleontologists and they would get us the answer in just a few minutes. >> i want to tur turn to rosetta spacecraft. some of the first results from the rosetta mission might imply otherwise. >> what the results show us is the chemistry of the water itself is made up of a heavy water, different water than earth water. when we look at the two that couldn't possibly have been the source for water here on earth. that doesn't eliminate the possibility of comets bringing water to earth, but that the water was generated by geologic processes on earth but the possibility that we have to eliminate by doing this scientific process that water may have come either on a comet
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or come bound up in asteroids that crashed into the planet early in its history. >> aasteroids. fascinating. thank you derek. >> thank you antonio. >> what it was like spending 20 years working for a man who committed billions of dollars of fraud. >> the conversation continues on our website, aljazeera.com/considerthis. you can tweet me @amoratv. we'll see you next time.
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this is al jazeera america, i'm john seigenthaler outrage around the world. >> some of our country men who were tortured were totally innocent the torture report, the c.i.a. and the calls for prosecution. justice deferred. [ chanting ] the deaths of michael brown and eric garner - will the officers involved face federal charges? >> the officers should have immediately taken steps to hel

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